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I had some feedback from my “Feedback on “Will the Tower Industry Police Itself?”

I wanted to get this out because this guy thought I deleted his feedback!

Comment: WHY DID YOU REMOVE MY POST……..

Response: I didn’t, here it is! I put his name in here because I think it’s funny, and I am pretty sure it’s not his real name!

Name: One of the few Intelligent ones
Comment: I will say this. YOU WILL NEVER POLICE THIS INDUSTRY. WHY……In most other industries you must have degrees, training, certs, etc. For example to be an engineer you need degree, certs, etc. To be a manager you need all plus more. See this is the only Industry I know where a person can have dropped out of High School, be working at a 7-eleven on Friday night and that following Monday be a tower climber installing high dollar equipment for major carriers. It is unbelievable.

What I mean is be careful what you ask for. This industry does not have professionals. There are some, but most rant and rave about being underpaid, so dangerous, etc but yet the industry is filled with drinking, pot smoking, not show up for work on time, rough necks who do not know a thing about being a professional. If they were to make qualification a determination for employment most would not make the cut. Urinalysis on a regular basis would weed out another chunk. Punctuality would probably get the rest. The professional powers to be known this and therefore it will never happen because 95% of the work force will not make the cut. You better not police the industry I should say.

Why is this industry so dangerous, I have climbed for over 20 years, had over 300 climbers under my supervision and no accidents or deaths. It is really quite simple. If your Physically tied to an object that is anchored in the ground, it’s physically impossible to fall. Pretty simple I think.

When climbers fall 100% of the time it is climber error. You never hear of equipment failing.

Response: Tell me how you really feel! First off, congratulations on training so many climbers, working with so many, and never losing any, thank you for that! I really mean it, great job! You are correct about most of this, you have those people but you also have some great people that think of this a profession, not a job. I often think of it as very skilled labor. However, I have also met many that fit the description you put in. You also make a great point about tie off, while not all the deaths last year were from tie off problems, there was also rigging failures, heart attacks, and tower collapsing. However, you are correct, there were many that obviously didn’t tie off. We need to drill into everyone’s head that if they don’t tie off they could die.

As for safety gear failures, there have been some this year but I don’t know if anyone’s safety lanyard failed, so you make a great point if you are referring to the safety lanyards!

Go to the IWCE conference and see me! For a discount enter code SPK! Remember that the communications people for public safety and fire departments will be there. Fire departments rescue climbers!

You want to learn about safety? Then listen to me at the “Tower Safety and Regulatory Compliance” panel on March 17^th, 2015

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Comment: After 25 years in the business, I still find that one of the biggest problems is drugs on and off the job sit. Another thing that causes us problems is NATE. NATE is like a lot of females. They love to keep something going all the time and I’m a firm believer if something isn’t broke, don’t fix it. My grandfather use to tell me, don’t stir in shit,, it will stink. If NATE would butt out and, leave OSHA alone, we would be better off. All of these company owner’s that claim they are a member of NATE and it is not nothing to be proud of. We have a safety guy in our company that is always talking about safety, safety, safety but, out of the other side of his mouth, he condones smoking pot in the company, on and off the job. It’s BS.

Response: OK, I take it you are not happy with NATE. I do know that NATE is working towards setting realistic safety training requirements in this industry. While they do serve the company owners, they are working to make the industry safer because this is the only way we will grow. Remember that no one wants a climber to get hurt. However, we have different views on how to prevent accidents.Prevention sounds easy, but it takes industry buy in and there are still so many climbers that do not tie off 100%!

OK everyone, this is a long comment, so be patient!

Comment: There are some interesting issues addressed in this forum that I agree with. There are no schools that can duplicate the effectiveness of OJT, however, schools can teach a lot of important points to a green hand. For example, I don’t think schools should teach that workers become totally reliant upon their PPG. I believe they should be taught to be as secure as possible on the tower, without any PPG at all, and the PPG should be considered secondary. Learning where to position yourself to avoid danger has proven to be as much of a deterrent as the PPG. I think a false sense of security is experienced when a worker wraps their lanyard or hooks their hook over a member. This is not a new argument. Years ago after an ironworker fell off the Verrazano Narrows bridge, American Bridge went on strike while pressing the general contractor to put nets under the areas they were working. Management claimed that a net would cause the men to feel a false sense of security and would result in more injuries because of carelessness. Eventually, after a short strike, the contractors capitulated and provided netting under the areas where bridge spans were being installed.
What puzzles me about all this schooling and training is, what are the credentials of the people doing the schooling and  training. Who is teaching the teachers? How many years of experience do they have actually climbing, setting iron, jumping poles, flagging cranes, using the basic tools or even tying knots. How many times have you teachers set up on top of a tower and actually endured the pain from harsh weather so you could finish a job and be home for Christmas? Few of you have ever experienced these circumstances.
The brains of the industry forget that this is a job. A job is where workers are given a task to perform and are paid to get it done in a safe and timely manner. If the works not done, nobody makes a dime. The workers that have the unique ability to get the work done safely need to be adequately compensated for what they contribute, and the “wanna-be’s”, the “professional resume writers and per-diem collectors” and the “PM brother-in-law contractors” need to be eliminated, and this is the job of the project managers and staffing people.
A crew will police itself only after they have worked together for some period of time, but it takes time. Moving boomers in from out-of-state on an “as needed” basis doesn’t give regular workers the time to learn what the boomers know or the tasks where they excel.

Response: Thank you sir, for the honest feedback. People often forget that if they don’t finish, they don’t get paid. If someone gets hurt or dies on a job, the company won’t get paid unless they finish. Most PMs and GCs won’t wait, they will bring another crew in to finish and not pay the first crew a dime. That doesn’t seem fair but that’ how it is. Ask anyone out there, this is the way the wireless business works. The GC can barely wait for OSHA to finish before they have a new crew on site to finish.

Training – I think the trainers play a key role in the process, but the experienced guys probably make more money working than training, just my opinion, unless they like going home every night, which is a huge factor after traveling for years. Most trainers are there to train the climber for a specific task, we rely on OJT training to teach them the job. That’s how invaluable getting trained on the job is, it is invaluable. When you are work with an experience crew you learn so much more than working with all people that never climbed before. However, those crews get pretty creative, but it leave so much to chance. Work experience becomes invaluable, if you are trained properly and know your job! It pays to learn what you can while you can. Learn as much as you can!

Be smart, be safe, pay attention to your task, following your plan but be ready to adapt, improvise, and overcome the obstacles in your way!

March 16th to 20th, 2015

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Create your plan and career path with some products for wireless deployment and the tower workers! Start with the Introduction to Tower Climbing, then get The Field Worker’s Aid for Tower Site Work, then to do the work you need to look at the Scope of Work Training, and finally the Tower Worker’s Logbook to log your high time and drive time and your project responsibilities, go to Learn more about my products! for more information!

Go to the IWCE conference and see me! I will be on the “Tower Safety and Regulatory Compliance” panel on March 17^th, 2015. Don’t you need an excuse to go to the Las Vegas convention center. I will share the stage with Cory Crenshaw, Charles Ryan, Dr. Denis Boulais, and Robert Johnson. Our moderator will be J. Sharpe Smith of AGL Magazine. Here is a list of exhibitors that will be there. I will be speaking and I may need some safety gear, email me at wade4wireless@gmail.com so we can talk! Make sure you sign up for this forum running 1:00PM to 4:30PM because let’s face it, these are issues you deal with on every job!If you want to talk after the conference, let me know.

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Comment: Thanks Wade, good commentary. You ask some very deep questions that never seem to be honestly answered. This industry has been “self-policing” for decades. All in all, the fatality rates have been dismal. I have been hearing for decades, “We will take care of ourselves, we are professionals, who would be better than us can make this industry safer?” Things have not changed at all!
Furthermore, look at some of the tower rescues done by emergency services. While many nitwits want to talk about how they would have rescued and fired the poor guys. You overlook the reason why those men got where they were in the first place. Because they were hired to climb and they know nothing about it. It’s not a joke! We buried a number of fathers and husbands last year, because they were put in situations they had NO EXPERIENCE IN!
Anyone you speak to in this industry will tell you how safe they are and how they stay tied off 100% of the time. If this were the case, we wouldn’t have buried 14 of our own this year.
You laid out some of the ugly truths of this industry Wade. Self-policing is code for, “You don’t need to check us out, you should check out the other fools”. Free-climbing is rampant. Nobody dares to admit it. As long as the speed of the work is the #1 goal, safety and workers rights will always fall to the back. Carriers escape any culpability through turfers and subcontractors. It’s all big business and big money. Little of which actually gets to the ones being pressured, to do the tasks safely.
The policing has to come from the climbers. They must be allowed and encouraged to say “no” to unsafe situations. Any company owner will say, “We always have our men’s backs.” That is until the PM tells you the site you are on needs to be completed today and on the air tomorrow. There is no other answer he will accept, other than “Yes sir!” Safety is not honored or rewarded.
How can we possibly train every worker in the field with real-time OJT, supervised over a period of years by climbers with proper experience and safety records?
Unions already do that, and have been doing this with excellent results. While we have companies, who throw men off the street to job sites without any leadership. This is why climbers die. Sadly, climbers don’t seem to have the stomach to change this either. Sad times indeed.

Response: Thanks! That is why I asked about a union for climbers. I haven’t had time to really follow through with that. I heard so many vast opinions about unions, it’s hard to determine which is from experience and which is perception. I just want to find a way to make the industry safer, efficient, and profitable. They all go together to be successful. No deaths and minimal injuries.

What are you missing? Listen to the Podcast, on iTunes, or Stitcher to find out!

Go to the IWCE conference and see me! I will be on the “Tower Safety and Regulatory Compliance” panel on March 17^th, 2015

Comment: Industry driven by carrier deadline. Stressful  environment on tower owner side to meet customer  demand. Push, deployment,  change in equipment,  push, re prioritization, conference call, chastisement, lost in the drudgery to get it done. Then an accident happens. The carrier, GC, and tower owner say. We do not know how this could have happened, but we need to change.
Cooperation and standardized  SOP is the change.  Tower owners and carriers need to cooperate on a standard of keeping the backbone of the industry  safe. For without the backbone the body has no posture and is weak.

Response:This is great feedback, these are all good points and if we could have cooperation and standard operating procedure (SOP) across the industry then we could really move ahead. We really need the climbers to work together and communicate.
Comment: I am in the industry 16+ years as a climber and foreman. Recently moved into PM position and in-house instructor. I have always felt that climbers should be a union. Mainly for the purpose of people being properly trained. It is something the industry always needed and still does.
I feel a lot of the deaths and injuries over the years have stemmed from no or improper training. Having a unionized training could only benefit this industry. The days of handing a harness and gear to a guy who was telemarketing last week, showing how to put a harness on and climbing up 150′ to swap 12 antennas in one day with him, while showing him how to choose a proper anchor point for his fall arrest lanyard would be gone.
That telemarketer could have received good training for a few weeks and been sent out ready and knowing what he signed up for and knowledgeable enough to be more of a help than a worry whether this guy should even be up there right now. At the least, he would have been weeded out before he had the chance to get hurt or hurt someone else.
The training we receive through Comtrain, Gravitec, etc. is good training except for the fact that it is, as everything in the industry, rushed. Originally a 2 week class cut down to 2 days, rushed. The training is good for someone who has some type of experience already, has picked up on some of the vocabulary and who has put a harness on already. It is a great refresher course.
Climbers need a little more than that to get a good start and not try to learn under the extreme pressures of the field until.
Sign me up. I would love to continue working in this industry for years more seeing this type of change and giving future climbers a little more security in their chosen field.

Response: Great points! I think that training had to be made more efficient because so many climbers come and go quickly. One thing that doesn’t help is the fact that you don’t know how the person is going to react to the job. Will they be there for 3 months or 5 years? That is the owners conundrum. They are trying to hire and ramp up for jobs but then they lose people for whatever reason and then need to start the expensive process over again. I believe that is why so many businesses are family owned.  That also is why so many owners stop caring because they tend to get screwed over and they have a hard time really caring. It becomes all business. What we need to do is find balance. We need owners that put safety first, but they still need to make a profit. Remember that safety still costs money. Training is very important.

Do you have an opinion on this?

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Create your plan and career path with some products for wireless deployment and the tower workers! Start with the Introduction to Tower Climbing, then get The Field Worker’s Aid for Tower Site Work, then to do the work you need to look at the Scope of Work Training, and finally the Tower Worker’s Logbook to log your high time and drive time and your project responsibilities, go to Learn more about my products! for more information!

Go to the IWCE conference and see me! I will be on the “Tower Safety and Regulatory Compliance” panel on March 17^th, 2015. Don’t you need an excuse to go to the Las Vegas convention center. I will share the stage with Cory Crenshaw, Charles Ryan, Dr. Denis Boulais, and Robert Johnson. Our moderator will be J. Sharpe Smith of AGL Magazine. Here is a list of exhibitors that will be there. I will be speaking and I may need some safety gear, email me at wade4wireless@gmail.com so we can talk! Make sure you sign up for this forum running 1:00PM to 4:30PM because let’s face it, these are issues you deal with on every job!If you want to talk after the conference, let me know.

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This is from my post “Will the tower industry Police Itself?”

Comment: Wow
I AGREE so much of what you say is truth (I am a 11 yr veteran of the industry) and it is passion that has kept me in. I believe if the big 3, at&t etc, would see that you can not replace an injured worker with anyone just to get system on-line so it will get punched. Please I have trained my share, how many still, in few but some and they are DAMN GOOD HANDS, but the pay doesn’t match. Keep up the good work here.

Response: Thanks, I often hear how many customers are more concerned about 2 things during an injury and that is schedules and reputation. You know what they rarely worry about? Lawsuits, even though they do lawyer up most people working there do want the injured to get better, most managers know that the courts set a precedent when AT&T was sued and the judge determined that because AT&T put that layer of turf vendors in between them and the climber, they could not be held liable. However, now OSHA would like to see the contracts so they can investigate farther. For all of you that think I am making it up, go HERE and HERE and HERE. Listen, when there is an accident and you see a friend get hurt, or a family member, it suddenly changes your perspective. No one wants anyone to get hurt. Look at TIRAP setting a model to follow and NATE working on training standards. All tower crews have to do is follow their instruction. Most do, most companies have a great culture stressing safety along with quality work. Like is said, safety is not cheap, so when the customer demands low prices but continue the demand for unrealistic schedules, the problem continues. The way I see it, safety is in the hands of the of the crew owners and customer, they will set the standards for their contractors but continually asking for the certifications for everyone on their jobs as well as doing safety audits randomly. No tower crew really likes the customer checking up on them but that is the only way I see things changing.

Go to theIWCE conferenceand see me! I will be on the“Tower Safety and Regulatory Compliance”panel on March 17^th, 2015.

Comment: Points I’d like to make:
    1- Get the charlatans out of the industry. The last few years have seen a huge growth and everyone wants a piece of the pie. This includes TURFERS that have no frigging clue as what they signed on for and/or give  $#@% about the GCs actually hanging their ass out in the wind dealing with these idiots.
   2- Company owners, foreman, leads right down to the FNG need to make safety the daily priority.
   3- There is no substitute for OJT. Just like there is no substitute for climber/rescue training and practice. Safety isn’t just a classroom study. There is class/instruction work and hands on. Every day there is something different. Training people to pay attention and identify issues is a daily thing (it never stops).
    4- Aptitude is something you have or don’t have. It cannot be trained, instructed or expected of someone who does not possess it. Identifying this early is the only way to be proficient and safe in this industry.
More points:
TIRAP was good intentions but ran like just any other class, getting a D- is still passing. That goes back to aptitude, and attitude (many people want to be a medical doctors and in some countries can be, even though you wouldn’t want them working on you). People have to be built for this work mentally and physically.
The Govt should set basic standards and then step off. Are we adults of babies? If you’re the latter this is the WRONG place for you. If you’re the former act like it. This is a business and hopefully your name. Treat it right, you can only sell your soul once.
Unions, like communism, has worn out it’s usefulness and welcome. Now it’s just a tick sucking off the system and occasionally killing someone off.
This is not  business for whiners, con men or swindlers. This is a business for real men and women. Honesty and integrity are paramount. Really everything starts with those 2 things. Sadly those are the 2 things missing from the majority of society and in this business it’s the difference between life and death. Yes there are plenty of companies out there without those qualities but they will burn down or out in the short-term. And in the process make life more difficult for the rest.
The large companies (MASTEC included) have NOT paid GCs on projects for the last 3 years pretty regularly so I have to disagree with you on that one.
Thanks for reading and I hope I didn’t make anyone dizzy with the jumping around a bit. Some times my rants go that way.
All I really want to say is that this industry is one of those that there isn’t room for rationalizing. It is do it or don’t do it. Half assed will get someone killed>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Response: You make several good points, this is a tough business. It is full of swindlers and con men, mostly because even though it’s a small business we don’t call out these people in a public forum because of lawsuits. So what do we do? Word of mouth within the industry. I follow a few deployment pages and postings only to see that there are climbers and businesses that just screw over others. Yes, it is something that happens to the companies. Some people work for a company and walk with all they can carry and then there are companies that hire crews and just don’t pay them. I have been on both sides and it really sucks when it happens. However, you push forward and do what you can do. You worry about taking care of business, your business the best you can. You build in any protection you can. You talk to your competition about safety, companies, and who pays and who won’t. We really need to communicate in this industry, after all, that’s what we do, we build communication systems, right?

You also brought up about big companies, it just seems that when companies get larger, their priorities change, I don’t know why but that is the perception. They need to realize that they will get a bad reputation in the industry, but most don’t care because there are so many crews looking for work. So many tower crews are out there looking for work, willing to take risks for the sake of getting paid by a customer.

As far as unions, I think that they offer a way to organize the climbers to be trained properly. Unions still are out there and still offer value. I feel differently about them because I know many tower climbers in the IBEW and they seem to be well-trained and do good work.

To respond to your original points:

1. You have clueless and uncaring people in any industry, However, look at all the good people in this industry, I really believe it balances out. I talk to people like Dr Bridgette Hester, Kathy Brand, Wally Reardon, and so many more that really make the industry look good.
2. There are outstanding company owners out there, watch the TIRAP Workshop and you will see Dave Anthony of Shenandoah Tower Service who runs his company with one of the best safety cultures in the business, building safety first attitude from the top down. Unfortunately there are probably 10 companies to every one like Dave’s that don’t stress anything but the schedule. Money first for some people. It reminds me of something someone told me, (sorry for getting sentimental) the greatest things in life are free, even though we chase money life was given to us and love is often found, not bought.
3. OJT is the most valuable training you can get, but it really helps to have experienced and upstanding people you work with. You may or may not like them but if they are really good at their job and safety, then you will learn good habits. Unfortunately many young men learn bad habits or need to rely on their intuition to figure out what to do with no experience, sometimes that can be good or bad.
4. I agree, aptitude is a gift that really helps in this business.

Comment from my blog I thought would be great to share:

Wade,
I think that you have asked the single most important question in all of telecommunications, actually. I spent more than 15 years working aloft in every scenario imaginable from new builds and installations, to having to do a tower survey just to make sure the tower is safe for 2 men to climb – and some failed that and I refused to let my people work on them. In my career aloft, we did not even have a near miss. Riding the headache ball was not allowed! Hanging off an attachment was not allowed. Gin poles of all sizes were not used if they were in poor repair. Some of these practices were “very inconvenient” and probably cost my company money, but I never had to plan a hospital visit schedule, or worse, ever in my outdoor career.
Telecom is not the only area this problem exists. In many areas, you just have to stand under a bridge for a short while before you decide that where you are standing is unsafe. I think that in the case of the bridge, a worker on the bridge cannot be responsible for the maintenance of the structure before performing work on some part of it. If that were the case, repairing the guard rail might be a multi-million dollar project.
I heartily support the training efforts, and apprenticeship programs for all areas of telecommunications. When workers in our industry are well-trained, costs actually come down because the work is accomplished in less time, and the quality is always better, and for the owner of the infrastructure, maintenance costs are generally lower. When infrastructure is in poor shape, then risk is higher, and costs for maintenance and installation is higher.
Just my two cents!
Congratulations on your blog!

Response:Thank you! It’s funny you say that because I take so much heat for asking these questions. So many people don’t want to ask these questions, it is business as usual. Some people get defensive, like I am accusing them of something. I just want everyone out there to be smart, be safe, and pay attention to what they are doing. I want them all to come home alive. I really want the industry to thrive, with no deaths and minimal injuries. There is a ton of work coming up that will require creative solutions for deployment, we need to build up the industry and be prepared.

Be smart, be safe, and pay attention! Follow the plan but don’t be afraid to adapt, improvise, and overcome!

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Start learning with some products I created just for you! Start with the Introduction to Tower Climbing, then get The Field Worker’s Aid for Tower Site Work, then to do the work you need to look at the Scope of Work Training, and finally the Tower Worker’s Logbook to log your high time and drive time and your project responsibilities, go to Learn more about my products! for more information!

Go to theIWCE conferenceand see me! I will be on the“Tower Safety and Regulatory Compliance”panel on March 17^th, 2015. Don’t you need an excuse to go to the Las Vegas convention center. I will share the stage with Cory Crenshaw, Charles Ryan,Dr. Denis Boulais, and Robert Johnson. Our moderator will be J. Sharpe Smith of AGL Magazine. Here is a list of exhibitors that will be there. I will be speaking and I may need some safety gear, email me at wade4wireless@gmail.com so we can talk! Make sure you sign up for this forum running 1:00PM to 4:30PM because let’s face it, these are issues you deal with on every job!If you want to talk after the conference, let me know.