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I talk about how the unions are relevant and so many people tell me that they are not, and yet, so many people, especially workers, are talking about it. Well, here is someone who is going the extra mile to make sure that something is done. Bryce Mallory is one of several people who are taking the union to the next level. There is so much more in the podcast, but he is starting a fund-raiser to get the money to start the union. He is creating a YouTube video so he can get the word out and we talked for over an hour about the process and the many issues in the field today. Remember that Bryce is a tower climber and is vocal about what is wrong in the industry. You may not agree with everything that he says, but he says what a lot of people have been thinking about for the last year or so. Just keep an open mind when you listen! Go to the bottom of the blog for videos!
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Bryce is trying to start a union for the tower climbers. He has reached out to the Ironworkers Union and now he is trying to organize a group on his own. He felt the Ironworkers union did not represent the tower climber’s needs and that they had little interest in helping the tower climbers on a national level.
Unionization of the industry is something that climbers talk about. Many are in a union, although not the same union and there is no tower workers union, yet. To unionize this industry would be a daunting task, one that would take an organized and consistent effort. Not to mention money to support it. It would take a group that is patient but willing to push when they had to. It would also take a large group of workers to enroll.
One of the problems with unionization of the industry is that there is not a large number of employees working at one company. In other word a union can’t go in a bargain with one large company to gain a contract. This industry is made up of smaller companies with maybe 2 or 3 crews of tower workers. Each crew may consist of 2 to 5 members depending upon their skill set. That is why unions have been efficient in the past because they were able to bargain with large companies and then work their way down to the smaller companies. The tower worker industry is not like that, it is generally smaller companies.
Why is the industry made up of smaller industries? Well, here is the way I see it. The work is feast or famine, so a larger company would have to ramp up, say hire many employees to build, lay them off when the work stops or a large customer, like AT&T, decides to change it’s outlook for the year. In today’s world it is hard to stay laid off for a year until the next build happens. The other reason is training, insurance, the cost of safety is a lot of money. Insurance will eat you alive. Finally, another reason is how the tower worker is treated by contractors or turf vendors. They treat them like a tool, only using it when the work is hot only to shelf it when the work stops. Since many tower workers work for small companies, the less reputable contractors don’t always pay their tower crews. I knew people that thought this was a viable business plan to work the small company and not pay them, then to tell them if they do the next job they would pay them, but they never paid them all the money just some of it until the smaller company was out of business. Then they move onto the next company. Sad, but true. This is one of the reasons that the industry needs help, money is put before the people and the people need money to not only live, but to pay for all the safety training and equipment needed to do the job. I remember hen the carriers used to work with the climbers, they would ask for payment terms of net 120, 4 months to get paid. It is better now, but if you wait 4 months for a paycheck then you may starve to death.
Another problem they face is that tower climbers are so spread out, all over the US, many travel, and there may be about 20,000 that would actually enroll. It would be a daunting task to sign them up. To get them to have the time to organize may seem crazy.
Yet, I hear rumblings of forming a tower union from many of these people, you know why? I think it’s because throughout the past several years with all the advances in safety, we still lose many a year. This year, 2015, we lost a young woman in March, the first of the year. So one this year is much less than last year, but is that because workers are practicing 100% tie off or is it because this has been a slow growth year? Don’t think OSHA doesn’t know how many we lose, it’s more than they show on their site because we lost some to auto accidents and other accidents.
Now, there are many climbers who are in unions. Some are still in the Ironworkers union because the local chapter supports them. Others are in the IBEW because their local chapter supports them. These organizations both seem to have an organized training programs, they support their people, offer to keep their members training records available and ready. If a union company needs a climber they can go to the hall and request one. If one is available then they go there to work.
Bryce is one man who took it upon himself to work to see that dream come true. He would like to offer the workers a choice. He is willing to go toe to toe with the companies that hire the climbers and make sure that tower workers get a fair deal.
In this interview he talks about how he plans to start the union and get it going. He brings up man issues in the industry that made him want to start this challenging endeavor. While many of you have your opinions about unions in general, he brings up the critical issues as he sees them in the tower industry.
In this talk we go over the current issues that OSHA faces and how they could do more for the tower industry. We understand that they have budgetary issues but that is hard to explain to someone who gets hurt.
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I have been getting so much feedback on both sides on how tower climbers can be represented. Some think union, some thing private group, some say it’s fine the way it is. So here is a poll so you can tell me what you think. Then if that is not enough, you can offer feedback below. So quit your whining and take action, fill out the poll and give me some feedback!
Have more to say? Here is your chance to tell me what you really think!
Also, I will add you to my newsletter.
Do you understand the SOW! Maybe some training would help.
So remember to be smart, be safe, and pay attention to what you’re doing! Make a plan, follow the plan but don’t be afraid to adapt, improvise, and overcome your obstacles!
I wanted to get this out because this guy thought I deleted his feedback!
Comment: WHY DID YOU REMOVE MY POST……..
Response: I didn’t, here it is! I put his name in here because I think it’s funny, and I am pretty sure it’s not his real name!
Name: One of the few Intelligent ones Comment: I will say this. YOU WILL NEVER POLICE THIS INDUSTRY. WHY……In most other industries you must have degrees, training, certs, etc. For example to be an engineer you need degree, certs, etc. To be a manager you need all plus more. See this is the only Industry I know where a person can have dropped out of High School, be working at a 7-eleven on Friday night and that following Monday be a tower climber installing high dollar equipment for major carriers. It is unbelievable.
What I mean is be careful what you ask for. This industry does not have professionals. There are some, but most rant and rave about being underpaid, so dangerous, etc but yet the industry is filled with drinking, pot smoking, not show up for work on time, rough necks who do not know a thing about being a professional. If they were to make qualification a determination for employment most would not make the cut. Urinalysis on a regular basis would weed out another chunk. Punctuality would probably get the rest. The professional powers to be known this and therefore it will never happen because 95% of the work force will not make the cut. You better not police the industry I should say.
Why is this industry so dangerous, I have climbed for over 20 years, had over 300 climbers under my supervision and no accidents or deaths. It is really quite simple. If your Physically tied to an object that is anchored in the ground, it’s physically impossible to fall. Pretty simple I think.
When climbers fall 100% of the time it is climber error. You never hear of equipment failing.
Response: Tell me how you really feel! First off, congratulations on training so many climbers, working with so many, and never losing any, thank you for that! I really mean it, great job! You are correct about most of this, you have those people but you also have some great people that think of this a profession, not a job. I often think of it as very skilled labor. However, I have also met many that fit the description you put in. You also make a great point about tie off, while not all the deaths last year were from tie off problems, there was also rigging failures, heart attacks, and tower collapsing. However, you are correct, there were many that obviously didn’t tie off. We need to drill into everyone’s head that if they don’t tie off they could die.
As for safety gear failures, there have been some this year but I don’t know if anyone’s safety lanyard failed, so you make a great point if you are referring to the safety lanyards!
Go to the IWCE conference and see me! For a discount enter code SPK! Remember that the communications people for public safety and fire departments will be there. Fire departments rescue climbers!
Comment: After 25 years in the business, I still find that one of the biggest problems is drugs on and off the job sit. Another thing that causes us problems is NATE. NATE is like a lot of females. They love to keep something going all the time and I’m a firm believer if something isn’t broke, don’t fix it. My grandfather use to tell me, don’t stir in shit,, it will stink. If NATE would butt out and, leave OSHA alone, we would be better off. All of these company owner’s that claim they are a member of NATE and it is not nothing to be proud of. We have a safety guy in our company that is always talking about safety, safety, safety but, out of the other side of his mouth, he condones smoking pot in the company, on and off the job. It’s BS.
Response: OK, I take it you are not happy with NATE. I do know that NATE is working towards setting realistic safety training requirements in this industry. While they do serve the company owners, they are working to make the industry safer because this is the only way we will grow. Remember that no one wants a climber to get hurt. However, we have different views on how to prevent accidents.Prevention sounds easy, but it takes industry buy in and there are still so many climbers that do not tie off 100%!
OK everyone, this is a long comment, so be patient!
Comment: There are some interesting issues addressed in this forum that I agree with. There are no schools that can duplicate the effectiveness of OJT, however, schools can teach a lot of important points to a green hand. For example, I don’t think schools should teach that workers become totally reliant upon their PPG. I believe they should be taught to be as secure as possible on the tower, without any PPG at all, and the PPG should be considered secondary. Learning where to position yourself to avoid danger has proven to be as much of a deterrent as the PPG. I think a false sense of security is experienced when a worker wraps their lanyard or hooks their hook over a member. This is not a new argument. Years ago after an ironworker fell off the Verrazano Narrows bridge, American Bridge went on strike while pressing the general contractor to put nets under the areas they were working. Management claimed that a net would cause the men to feel a false sense of security and would result in more injuries because of carelessness. Eventually, after a short strike, the contractors capitulated and provided netting under the areas where bridge spans were being installed. What puzzles me about all this schooling and training is, what are the credentials of the people doing the schooling and training. Who is teaching the teachers? How many years of experience do they have actually climbing, setting iron, jumping poles, flagging cranes, using the basic tools or even tying knots. How many times have you teachers set up on top of a tower and actually endured the pain from harsh weather so you could finish a job and be home for Christmas? Few of you have ever experienced these circumstances. The brains of the industry forget that this is a job. A job is where workers are given a task to perform and are paid to get it done in a safe and timely manner. If the works not done, nobody makes a dime. The workers that have the unique ability to get the work done safely need to be adequately compensated for what they contribute, and the “wanna-be’s”, the “professional resume writers and per-diem collectors” and the “PM brother-in-law contractors” need to be eliminated, and this is the job of the project managers and staffing people. A crew will police itself only after they have worked together for some period of time, but it takes time. Moving boomers in from out-of-state on an “as needed” basis doesn’t give regular workers the time to learn what the boomers know or the tasks where they excel.
Response: Thank you sir, for the honest feedback. People often forget that if they don’t finish, they don’t get paid. If someone gets hurt or dies on a job, the company won’t get paid unless they finish. Most PMs and GCs won’t wait, they will bring another crew in to finish and not pay the first crew a dime. That doesn’t seem fair but that’ how it is. Ask anyone out there, this is the way the wireless business works. The GC can barely wait for OSHA to finish before they have a new crew on site to finish.
Training – I think the trainers play a key role in the process, but the experienced guys probably make more money working than training, just my opinion, unless they like going home every night, which is a huge factor after traveling for years. Most trainers are there to train the climber for a specific task, we rely on OJT training to teach them the job. That’s how invaluable getting trained on the job is, it is invaluable. When you are work with an experience crew you learn so much more than working with all people that never climbed before. However, those crews get pretty creative, but it leave so much to chance. Work experience becomes invaluable, if you are trained properly and know your job! It pays to learn what you can while you can. Learn as much as you can!
Be smart, be safe, pay attention to your task, following your plan but be ready to adapt, improvise, and overcome the obstacles in your way!
Comment: Thanks Wade, good commentary. You ask some very deep questions that never seem to be honestly answered. This industry has been “self-policing” for decades. All in all, the fatality rates have been dismal. I have been hearing for decades, “We will take care of ourselves, we are professionals, who would be better than us can make this industry safer?” Things have not changed at all! Furthermore, look at some of the tower rescues done by emergency services. While many nitwits want to talk about how they would have rescued and fired the poor guys. You overlook the reason why those men got where they were in the first place. Because they were hired to climb and they know nothing about it. It’s not a joke! We buried a number of fathers and husbands last year, because they were put in situations they had NO EXPERIENCE IN! Anyone you speak to in this industry will tell you how safe they are and how they stay tied off 100% of the time. If this were the case, we wouldn’t have buried 14 of our own this year. You laid out some of the ugly truths of this industry Wade. Self-policing is code for, “You don’t need to check us out, you should check out the other fools”. Free-climbing is rampant. Nobody dares to admit it. As long as the speed of the work is the #1 goal, safety and workers rights will always fall to the back. Carriers escape any culpability through turfers and subcontractors. It’s all big business and big money. Little of which actually gets to the ones being pressured, to do the tasks safely. The policing has to come from the climbers. They must be allowed and encouraged to say “no” to unsafe situations. Any company owner will say, “We always have our men’s backs.” That is until the PM tells you the site you are on needs to be completed today and on the air tomorrow. There is no other answer he will accept, other than “Yes sir!” Safety is not honored or rewarded. How can we possibly train every worker in the field with real-time OJT, supervised over a period of years by climbers with proper experience and safety records? Unions already do that, and have been doing this with excellent results. While we have companies, who throw men off the street to job sites without any leadership. This is why climbers die. Sadly, climbers don’t seem to have the stomach to change this either. Sad times indeed.
Response: Thanks! That is why I asked about a union for climbers. I haven’t had time to really follow through with that. I heard so many vast opinions about unions, it’s hard to determine which is from experience and which is perception. I just want to find a way to make the industry safer, efficient, and profitable. They all go together to be successful. No deaths and minimal injuries.
Comment: Industry driven by carrier deadline. Stressful environment on tower owner side to meet customer demand. Push, deployment, change in equipment, push, re prioritization, conference call, chastisement, lost in the drudgery to get it done. Then an accident happens. The carrier, GC, and tower owner say. We do not know how this could have happened, but we need to change. Cooperation and standardized SOP is the change. Tower owners and carriers need to cooperate on a standard of keeping the backbone of the industry safe. For without the backbone the body has no posture and is weak.
Response:This is great feedback, these are all good points and if we could have cooperation and standard operating procedure (SOP) across the industry then we could really move ahead. We really need the climbers to work together and communicate. Comment: I am in the industry 16+ years as a climber and foreman. Recently moved into PM position and in-house instructor. I have always felt that climbers should be a union. Mainly for the purpose of people being properly trained. It is something the industry always needed and still does. I feel a lot of the deaths and injuries over the years have stemmed from no or improper training. Having a unionized training could only benefit this industry. The days of handing a harness and gear to a guy who was telemarketing last week, showing how to put a harness on and climbing up 150′ to swap 12 antennas in one day with him, while showing him how to choose a proper anchor point for his fall arrest lanyard would be gone. That telemarketer could have received good training for a few weeks and been sent out ready and knowing what he signed up for and knowledgeable enough to be more of a help than a worry whether this guy should even be up there right now. At the least, he would have been weeded out before he had the chance to get hurt or hurt someone else. The training we receive through Comtrain, Gravitec, etc. is good training except for the fact that it is, as everything in the industry, rushed. Originally a 2 week class cut down to 2 days, rushed. The training is good for someone who has some type of experience already, has picked up on some of the vocabulary and who has put a harness on already. It is a great refresher course. Climbers need a little more than that to get a good start and not try to learn under the extreme pressures of the field until. Sign me up. I would love to continue working in this industry for years more seeing this type of change and giving future climbers a little more security in their chosen field.
Response: Great points! I think that training had to be made more efficient because so many climbers come and go quickly. One thing that doesn’t help is the fact that you don’t know how the person is going to react to the job. Will they be there for 3 months or 5 years? That is the owners conundrum. They are trying to hire and ramp up for jobs but then they lose people for whatever reason and then need to start the expensive process over again. I believe that is why so many businesses are family owned. That also is why so many owners stop caring because they tend to get screwed over and they have a hard time really caring. It becomes all business. What we need to do is find balance. We need owners that put safety first, but they still need to make a profit. Remember that safety still costs money. Training is very important.
Comment: Wow I AGREE so much of what you say is truth (I am a 11 yr veteran of the industry) and it is passion that has kept me in. I believe if the big 3, at&t etc, would see that you can not replace an injured worker with anyone just to get system on-line so it will get punched. Please I have trained my share, how many still, in few but some and they are DAMN GOOD HANDS, but the pay doesn’t match. Keep up the good work here.
Response: Thanks, I often hear how many customers are more concerned about 2 things during an injury and that is schedules and reputation. You know what they rarely worry about? Lawsuits, even though they do lawyer up most people working there do want the injured to get better, most managers know that the courts set a precedent when AT&T was sued and the judge determined that because AT&T put that layer of turf vendors in between them and the climber, they could not be held liable. However, now OSHA would like to see the contracts so they can investigate farther. For all of you that think I am making it up, go HERE and HERE and HERE. Listen, when there is an accident and you see a friend get hurt, or a family member, it suddenly changes your perspective. No one wants anyone to get hurt. Look at TIRAP setting a model to follow and NATE working on training standards. All tower crews have to do is follow their instruction. Most do, most companies have a great culture stressing safety along with quality work. Like is said, safety is not cheap, so when the customer demands low prices but continue the demand for unrealistic schedules, the problem continues. The way I see it, safety is in the hands of the of the crew owners and customer, they will set the standards for their contractors but continually asking for the certifications for everyone on their jobs as well as doing safety audits randomly. No tower crew really likes the customer checking up on them but that is the only way I see things changing.
Comment:Points I’d like to make: 1- Get the charlatans out of the industry. The last few years have seen a huge growth and everyone wants a piece of the pie. This includes TURFERS that have no frigging clue as what they signed on for and/or give $#@% about the GCs actually hanging their ass out in the wind dealing with these idiots. 2- Company owners, foreman, leads right down to the FNG need to make safety the daily priority. 3- There is no substitute for OJT. Just like there is no substitute for climber/rescue training and practice. Safety isn’t just a classroom study. There is class/instruction work and hands on. Every day there is something different. Training people to pay attention and identify issues is a daily thing (it never stops). 4- Aptitude is something you have or don’t have. It cannot be trained, instructed or expected of someone who does not possess it. Identifying this early is the only way to be proficient and safe in this industry. More points: TIRAP was good intentions but ran like just any other class, getting a D- is still passing. That goes back to aptitude, and attitude (many people want to be a medical doctors and in some countries can be, even though you wouldn’t want them working on you). People have to be built for this work mentally and physically. The Govt should set basic standards and then step off. Are we adults of babies? If you’re the latter this is the WRONG place for you. If you’re the former act like it. This is a business and hopefully your name. Treat it right, you can only sell your soul once. Unions, like communism, has worn out it’s usefulness and welcome. Now it’s just a tick sucking off the system and occasionally killing someone off. This is not business for whiners, con men or swindlers. This is a business for real men and women. Honesty and integrity are paramount. Really everything starts with those 2 things. Sadly those are the 2 things missing from the majority of society and in this business it’s the difference between life and death. Yes there are plenty of companies out there without those qualities but they will burn down or out in the short-term. And in the process make life more difficult for the rest. The large companies (MASTEC included) have NOT paid GCs on projects for the last 3 years pretty regularly so I have to disagree with you on that one. Thanks for reading and I hope I didn’t make anyone dizzy with the jumping around a bit. Some times my rants go that way. All I really want to say is that this industry is one of those that there isn’t room for rationalizing. It is do it or don’t do it. Half assed will get someone killed>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Response: You make several good points, this is a tough business. It is full of swindlers and con men, mostly because even though it’s a small business we don’t call out these people in a public forum because of lawsuits. So what do we do? Word of mouth within the industry. I follow a few deployment pages and postings only to see that there are climbers and businesses that just screw over others. Yes, it is something that happens to the companies. Some people work for a company and walk with all they can carry and then there are companies that hire crews and just don’t pay them. I have been on both sides and it really sucks when it happens. However, you push forward and do what you can do. You worry about taking care of business, your business the best you can. You build in any protection you can. You talk to your competition about safety, companies, and who pays and who won’t. We really need to communicate in this industry, after all, that’s what we do, we build communication systems, right?
You also brought up about big companies, it just seems that when companies get larger, their priorities change, I don’t know why but that is the perception. They need to realize that they will get a bad reputation in the industry, but most don’t care because there are so many crews looking for work. So many tower crews are out there looking for work, willing to take risks for the sake of getting paid by a customer.
As far as unions, I think that they offer a way to organize the climbers to be trained properly. Unions still are out there and still offer value. I feel differently about them because I know many tower climbers in the IBEW and they seem to be well-trained and do good work.
To respond to your original points:
You have clueless and uncaring people in any industry, However, look at all the good people in this industry, I really believe it balances out. I talk to people like Dr Bridgette Hester, Kathy Brand, Wally Reardon, and so many more that really make the industry look good.
There are outstanding company owners out there, watch the TIRAP Workshop and you will see Dave Anthony of Shenandoah Tower Service who runs his company with one of the best safety cultures in the business, building safety first attitude from the top down. Unfortunately there are probably 10 companies to every one like Dave’s that don’t stress anything but the schedule. Money first for some people. It reminds me of something someone told me, (sorry for getting sentimental) the greatest things in life are free, even though we chase money life was given to us and love is often found, not bought.
OJT is the most valuable training you can get, but it really helps to have experienced and upstanding people you work with. You may or may not like them but if they are really good at their job and safety, then you will learn good habits. Unfortunately many young men learn bad habits or need to rely on their intuition to figure out what to do with no experience, sometimes that can be good or bad.
I agree, aptitude is a gift that really helps in this business.
Comment from my blog I thought would be great to share:
Wade, I think that you have asked the single most important question in all of telecommunications, actually. I spent more than 15 years working aloft in every scenario imaginable from new builds and installations, to having to do a tower survey just to make sure the tower is safe for 2 men to climb – and some failed that and I refused to let my people work on them. In my career aloft, we did not even have a near miss. Riding the headache ball was not allowed! Hanging off an attachment was not allowed. Gin poles of all sizes were not used if they were in poor repair. Some of these practices were “very inconvenient” and probably cost my company money, but I never had to plan a hospital visit schedule, or worse, ever in my outdoor career. Telecom is not the only area this problem exists. In many areas, you just have to stand under a bridge for a short while before you decide that where you are standing is unsafe. I think that in the case of the bridge, a worker on the bridge cannot be responsible for the maintenance of the structure before performing work on some part of it. If that were the case, repairing the guard rail might be a multi-million dollar project. I heartily support the training efforts, and apprenticeship programs for all areas of telecommunications. When workers in our industry are well-trained, costs actually come down because the work is accomplished in less time, and the quality is always better, and for the owner of the infrastructure, maintenance costs are generally lower. When infrastructure is in poor shape, then risk is higher, and costs for maintenance and installation is higher. Just my two cents! Congratulations on your blog!
Response:Thank you! It’s funny you say that because I take so much heat for asking these questions. So many people don’t want to ask these questions, it is business as usual. Some people get defensive, like I am accusing them of something. I just want everyone out there to be smart, be safe, and pay attention to what they are doing. I want them all to come home alive. I really want the industry to thrive, with no deaths and minimal injuries. There is a ton of work coming up that will require creative solutions for deployment, we need to build up the industry and be prepared.
Be smart, be safe, and pay attention! Follow the plan but don’t be afraid to adapt, improvise, and overcome!
This is feedback from my earlier post,“Is it Time to Unionize Climbers?”You have a voice so use it! Commentary on the perception many people have of the union and the climbing industry.
Comment: I applaud the conversation. This needs more focus and attention. I’m not an expert on unions and maybe not a fan of them because of what I’ve heard about them, that being said, I feel this is one industry that could and should have one. I’ve tried personally to open a Telecom University, funding was not there. Watching the DOL and FCC try to get some proper training for the industry is interesting. What is the right thing? Not sure, but I’d like to see some changes and am willing to help. Going back to the union idea – again, I’m not an expert. I’d be more than willing to bring my 23 years of telecom experience and contacts to the table and help get a solution though. If enough people came to a table and got involved, I have no doubt we could do it.
Response: Thanks for pointing out that the industry needs some help. I think the question is a good one as well.
Comment: I am former West Region Safety Training Manager for Nexius. They have put their climbers in a separate company so they can better manipulate wages, training, and safety regulation costs, without affecting the rest of Nexius assets. This can potentially put climbers in danger, and keep them at a lower wage rate, with less benefits than other Nexius employees. I would like to help organize, train, and unionize climbers in the desert southwest. I am currently starting my own company training tower climbers in the southwest.
Response: Thanks for pointing out how the climbers are separated out from the rest of the company. I have seen this done to keep insurance costs down as well as protect the company from liability. Insurance companies know that it is a high risk job and the rates show it. Pretty tough job when the expenses are so high for something that turf vendors want to pay $10/hour for the service.
Comment: 13 years in, have made tremendous sacrifice , it has to go, in a better direction with more gain for the individuals who truly make it happen.
Response: Once again this shows how hard the field crews work with little reward or a better future. Thank you for sharing and for the hard work.
Comment: I am not so sure being unionized would be the best thing for this industry, however I do see some positive points that would help the industry as well. The biggest problem that I would see coming out of this, is that it would cause climbers to get lazy, it’s no secret that these jobs are time sensitive, you show up to site you start working and you don’t stop, a lot of times not even for lunch, you eat while you work. I have worked or been on a lot of jobs with union workers and to be honest, I have never seen one bust his but at the pace climbers generally work at. It’s something we seasoned climbers pride ourselves on, while we complain at times, deep down we are proud we can show up day after day and spend 12 plus hours on the tower and knock a site out a day earlier then the projected completion. I have noticed union workers do not have this mentality a lot if times and spend a lot of time socializing and working at their pace, rather than following the mentality of (not all climbers) but most. I see a huge positive in an apprenticeship program and extended training, I have seen too many guys come into this industry with zero experience other than a two-day course whether in-house or at a school in certified climbing and rescue then they are thrown into a crew and expected to work, with zero rigging experience, and zero carrier technology experience in a sort of boot camp period for green hands, I think this is a good period, if placed with a good crew and foreman it really helps to set the tone of what is expected and that we work at a face paced, you are not on your phone and we are not here to socialize but to work and work hard. However I would like to see guys with a lot more experience and training from some an apprenticeship program maybe 6 months long. This will only improve confidence in the green hand. I would like to see a better pay scale, even us more seasoned foreman make good money, but not the greatest, the carriers make a LOT of money and this job is not easy, we are out there battling the elements, fatigue, long hours, and physical abuse to the body, I just feel a lot of us should be paid more for the risks we take every day and the impact to our bodies we endure during the long hours, we are talking about being for the most part the back bone to these carriers that are which are multi billion dollar companies, yet green hands make about the same as someone working in a checkout line at a grocery store. I believe there is room for a lot of improvement in the pay scales for the work we do and the risks we take.
Response: I have to tell you that the union guys I worked with were anything but lazy. However, I heard all of the stories about how they just sit around. I think the difference between those stories is that most shops are in it to make money. If someone sits around then it is hard to make money. Don’t get me wrong, you seem to have many people out there, union and non-union that are lazy and don’t care. Most tower climbers, union or non-union that I have worked with get it, they understand that time is money and that quality counts.
Comment from email: The bigger question, why unionize anybody? That answer rests with your political tastes, government or private sector. In my opinion, labor unions are parasites, sucking much nutrition, i.e., $$$$, and returning little more than placebos, feel good benefits, feel good commandery and feel good job security. There are reasons that labor unions in general are nose-diving into non-existence and that is the expose’ that they are more form over little substance. Their intrinsic and bureaucratic relationship with government makes even the perceptual “form” lethargic and corrupt.
Among the “pros” mentioned, most important, “certification,” implies “qualification<’ which everybody wants but seldom get unless industry-driven. Industry is driven by results, i.e., $$$$$ – something which government and labor unions extract very well but don’t return, generate nor inspire. And so, your labor union certification programs would become pencil-whipping cheat sheet worthless documents – the “old guy” [seniority] is always top-paid and ranked and usually the biggest time-clock [productivity] cheater – the essence of labor unions.
In the roughly three and a half decades of cellular / wireless tower climbers the industry has been composed of every genre of beer-drinking blue-collar worker from farm boys to apprentice electricians to auto mechanics. Very few of them have understood the basics of RF, 50 ohms, impedance match, resonance, antenna gain or skin-effect. Even with Site Master sweep-generators being made readily available they still didn’t appreciate what the readings meant. Antennas and coax installed – a few days of freezing rain, all of a sudden high VSWR alarms are awakening the on-call cell tech and shutting down RBS sites – this was the norm more than the exception for at least two decades of the industry until the demand for some rudimentary education and certification began trickling in – maintenance overruns made operation managers pull their hair out.
Unionization? No. Industry-driven standardized training and certification? Yes.
Response: This was a common response, many people really dislike unions. However, he mentions that the tower climbers are beer drinking buddies, I think that is a sign that you get what you pay for. I know many climbers that do understand RF and the mechanical design of the towers. However, I also know the ones that view it as a laborers job, a means to pay the bills. Again, I feel you get what you tolerate. If you want a laborer, chances are that is what you will get. The standards will be set soon, then there will be a weeding out of some of the bad eggs, but then the price will go up to have qualified people. Isn’t that where we are now?
Comment from email: Great post. I am a 15 yr member of IBEW LOCAL 1. Two years ago we sent 20 men, all journeymen, through CITCA competent climber, authorized climber and tower rescue class. We had an opportunity to work for Wigdahl Electric. All went well for a time. We all loved working on cell towers. We also had civil crews for base work. The company lost a big chunk of work thru Ericsson/Sprint so we diversified into ATT and T-Mobile. At some point earlier this year the management in St. Louis from Wigdahl was not able to secure more work for us and shut the doors to the St. Louis branch. We, LOCAL 1, are still trying to get into the tower business thru a contractor and have discussed all of the pros you have listed.
Response: Thanks for letting us know. Good luck for the future!
Comment: Approached some officials at NATE about doing just that, providing skilled workers on a permanent basis or temporary. All ready trained and certified. The response was indescribable. They were only interested in their bottom line, not safety or training or skills. Left that meeting with my head in my hands. So you understand me, I have been in this business for over 35 years as a union Ironworker.
Response: Thank you, appreciate the input.
Comment: I am a tower climber and I am a union member,,,,, The IBEW has no clue what I do for a living but damn sure can tell you about electricians!!!! What a Joke!! Even insurance companies cannot understand what we do for a living!!!!
Response: I have run into that in the past where insurance people have no idea what you do. At that time we joined NATE and got an education on how to insure the company. I learned quite a bit from NATE about the business. It helped the company prepare and grown.
What do you think?
Be smart, be safe, and pay attention to what you are doing! Adapt, improvise, to overcome. Stay Alive!
I recently put a post out aboutunionizing tower climbers. The main response from the many people who were against unions, (many using the auto industry as the standard), coming into the tower industry told me the industry should police itself. I agree, it should. Is that happening? Apparently not, 12 deaths this year and who knows how many near misses and injuries. Isn’t that what the industry is doing now, policing itself? Apparently not, OSHA is policing the industry. Shouldn’t part of the responsibility fall on the carriers and the customers? I would think so but when something happens no one really investigates the end-user or the tower/monopole/water tank owners. Maybe the tower owners who say they are going the extra mile to make sure their towers are safe, but when an accident happens they are not looked at either. Apparently it is up to the climbers to police themselves. Some tower crews do an outstanding job while others don’t. That’s the way it is. OSHA is doing all they can. The FCC is helping. PCIA is setting training standards. Vocational schools are starting classes. The FCC and DOL got together to createTIRAP, a voluntary program defining anapprenticeship programto follow. I think it’s a great idea, setting a standard for all to follow. You know, like the voluntary wearing of seatbelts. I mean, did they really need to pass a law to make people wear seatbelts? Oh, right, yes, a law was passed because no one cared about wearing a seatbelt until it was a law and the police could pull you over for that reason. Did drivers police themselves in that case, no, and it didn’t cost near the money that tower climbing safety training and gear does.
How many people have to die before there is more intervention? Apparently more than 12 a year. Listen, no one wants anyone to die or get hurt. We really want everyone to be safe. I know that equipment fails and accidents happen and that will continue to happen. I would like to think that we are doing everything we can to be safe. However, I still hear about the horror stories of the industry where companies will initially get everyone trained until they get all the contracts from the carriers or turf vendors. Most companies start with good intentions. Then to save money they do on the job training (OJT) and skip the formal training. So is this the way we are going? Saving money by doing the minimal amount to get by? No first aid or CPR or ongoing rescue training, just the bare essentials to get approvals and then just hire whomever to make more money. This is where they should have in-house training so they can tailor the safety program, but so often this can be corrupt as well. In house programs can be great, I have seen some awesome trainers but by the same token I have seen companies pull the plug on the in-house program because of time and money. This is whyTIRAPwas set up, to set the standards for training, OJT, and apprenticeship as to prepare the new climbers for the career ahead of them. It costs time and money, two things that the climbing companies have a hard time getting. Look at MasTech, they trained a whole group of people only to have AT&T pull the plug and force MasTech to lay them off. Who do you hold responsible for that debacle?
Something to think about, the carriers are spending over $44 Billion to buy spectrum. There will be so much work coming up in the next 3 to 6 years. Much engineering work has been automated but crews are still needed to hang equipment on towers, poles, monopoles, and water tanks. Wouldn’t it be nice if we trained people properly and if they got the ongoing training they needed? Would it be great if they got paid for the work that they did? Getting paid is part of safety because safety is not cheap, training and safety gear costs money. If you don’t get paid you may have to cut back. Who is monitoring the payments to the contractors? It doesn’t appear to be the end customer.
So is the industry policing itself? In some cases, yes. There are business owners that run the company like they care. They train and they support their workers. They fire customers that don’t care about safety and put the schedule ahead of a life. They select who they wish to work with and for. They take the time to show that the business of safety and training is a culture, not an annoying practice to follow because the customer told you to.
I know many climbers and foreman and project managers that care, they know that a life is valuable. I also am hearing about more and more that don’t care because they have a schedule to keep. Everyone looks at an accident to see how to prevent it, but who is looking at the industry to make sure it’s policing itself? It should be every climber out there who has a foreman or PM that asks you to put the job ahead of their life. The reality is that a select few, (some climbers, some crew owners), and OSHA. They are trying to prevent this from happening in the first place. The FCC is assisting. The problem with relying on the government entities is that they are overwhelmed and understaffed.
So I would like to ask Verizon Wireless, AT&T Wireless, Sprint, and T-Mobile to put safety and site audits in their budgets for the upcoming growth. They really not only need to be following up on the contractors and the Turf vendors but dropping in to see the work happening unannounced. They should be talking to random installer during and after the installations to check the pulse of the industry. That is something they could do to make sure the GCs are doing their job. They should be hiring trained and competent crews. They should also follow-up to see that those crew are getting paid! I think that is why AT&T wanted to deploy with someone like MasTech, my opinion only! I believe AT&T would like to see the industry improve. I also think that Verizon Wireless really wants to make sure the deployments are safe and paid for.
By the way, do you know why people don’t stay in wireless? It is usually because of the business practices and getting paid. It is so hard to stay involved in this business. People that stay in wireless do it because it is a passion. How does the industry reward them? By torturing them with horrible schedules, low pay and poor business practices. For instance, if you get hurt on a job, you may not get paid because they will bring someone else into complete it. So you are injured, out of work, not getting paid, and the customer just moves on, status quo, business as usual. Meanwhile, the hurt climber and their family are left alone to deal with the legal issues that ensue. Who is there for them?Hubble Foundationand that’s about it outside of friends and family. The lawyers are there, but they may be looking out for one of the companies involved, not the person.
Be smart, be safe, and pay attention. You should have a plan in place even though you may need to improvise. After all, you need to have a guide to follow for the project and for safety.
So one thing that is often mentioned on in the Facebook groups is the question, “Should Tower Climbers Unionize?” I am not sure what you think but it would be a good way for the tower climber to be protected. I will get into the question below.
Would an existing union accept the tower climbers in force? The confusion that happens with the current unions is “which one would accept the climbers?” It used to be the Ironworkers when climbers built towers, but the climber does more that steel work in today’s world. Maybe the Communications Workers of America seems like a fit but they are looking at lighter duty jobs with less risk. I thought the IBEW would be a good fit since I know climbers that are already part of that union but it really is for wiring professionals, electrical and communications. I am not sure they would have the climbers join them in full force. I am reaching out to the IBEW for more information.
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Should climbers unionize? To be honest there are tower climbers in different unions. I know several in the IBEW. The people I know that are in the unions were coming from another profession, electricians or communications or Ironworkersor someone like that. I am not aware of any union that a tower climber can go into without another trade attached to it even though climbers need to know several trades to do their job. I thought that to unionize is something that many people talk about, but not many people know what to do next.
Here is a list I came up with based on what I read. These are pros and cons, but it is up to you to decide which is which. I am only going to state what I think will happen. Feel free to leave me your opinions!
Pro – The tower climbing apprenticeship programs would be implemented. There would be a structure to how the Greenhorn is brought in and trained.
Pro or Con – The tower climber pay would be structured and set. This is something that you may or may not want. Tower climbing has been commoditized in the past years where many companies just hired young people to do all the heavy lifting. This has really hurt the industry because safety and talent suffered. It takes training to do the tasks they are required to do. The original thought was to have the green guys work around one experienced guy. Well, that is not working out so well because if the experienced guy has a problem, who will help them?
Pro – There would be structured training outside of climbing training. What I mean by that is that an organized union has more training available and makes it required to stay current. Also, when a company or crew would search the union for people, they would look at the climbers resume and certifications. So the union would make sure that your certifications would go with the climber and not stay with the company.
Pro –Mandatory repeated training! Big time positive thing here because many climbers get trained one and don’t practice. Practice makes us better at what we do, from sports to testing to work. When you have the opportunity to save a life, being prepared is being ready, and that involves practice, practice, and more practice.
Pro – Certifications would matter! What I mean by that is that the union would have the resume of every climber in it and if someone came to the local union hall looking for a climber that has specific fiber skills and can weld, that is what they would get. Skills would be out there for all to see and companies would hire for specific skills. That is how I see the IBEW do it today.
Pro – Certifications would stay up to date. The local union hall would make sure of that.
Con – Strikes would happen. Not everyone would agree, but if the union called a strike on a carrier, you would need to strike to show solidarity. Everyone sees this as good until they have to stay off work for more than a few weeks, think about it.
Pro or Con – Prices would go up for the customer because pricing would be consistent for an area. Prices would increase in many areas. There would still be competition from non-union shops. Remember that some area are already union only, Philadelphia, NYC, Boston, and more.
Pro – If you were in the union, you would be recognized as well-trained and as a professional. I think that most people would view a union electrician as a professional by default. I am not putting down other non-union electricians, but they would need to have a good reputation from their customers whereas a union electrician is expected to be a true professional.
Pro – The union would have pull in the government. That means the tower climber would have serious representation in the federal and possibly the state governments. This would balance out the way it is now. Who represents the tower climbers now? NATE, yes. The FCC and DOL, yes. They are doing all they can but in the end the lawmakers respond growing their campaigns. There are heavy taxes on cell phones, and there are lobbyists for most carriers, and the tower climbers aren’t represented in any of those groups.
Pro –If you put your name in at the union hall, they would call you when they had work if you met the job requirements.
Con – You would need to pay union dues, but that may also have your vacation pay and your retirement built-in.
Pro or Con – You would need to sign into the local union hall wherever you worked, this may require a local rep to work with you or oversee your work.
I wanted to put some feedback in here from some people who realize how bad things can get out there.
Comment: It has definitely become an us against them atmosphere, right down to our own pm’s and cm’s that’ll push-push-push, work 14×7 [14 hour days by 7 days a week] until the projects over then” we’ll call you when we need you “,or until you quit just to get some sleep. All the money in the world isn’t worth it if you destroy yourself to make it.
Response: I hear this from so many people that it is crazy, but not fair. It becomes all about the work.
Comment: I agreed with Dave Anthony on nearly every point. If he treats safety the way he said he did, I appreciate that sort of leadership. Unfortunately, the majority of employers out there today, make Dave an aberration. Someone pays for this cost of doing business. My question is; who pays the price? Ask any family member who has lost a loved one. Ask any worker, confined to an adult home, wheelchair, or any career ending injury. I have seen far too many families and extended families supported by a climber, turn with no other options to public assistance, in the event of a catastrophic injury or death. One clear fundamental difference I have from Dave, was his call for industry change, from the “top-down”. That has been attempted by NATE and wireless industry interests for decades. All of NATE’s policy agendas have been blaming the dumb cowboy who refuses to tie off. Need an example? Look at any of their posters from the “Tie or Die” initiative a few years ago. More recently, their two public service announcements earlier this year, promoting their “24/7” campaign. Listen closely to WHO they are talking about. The shifty tower contractor? Carriers and turfers? Nope! That employee who throws caution to the wind and free-climbs because he doesn’t follow the rules. They, are the focus of the industry fatality rate. You make some good points about the way the industry does business Wade. But I feel more can be done than just accepting things the way they are, and getting used to the way business is done. TIRAP, is another industry gimmick. Just another top-down approach to train more workers. Few details have emerged about this wonder of the industry. You can go to the link Wade provided and see what they are intending to do. The few graduates who complete this program are expected to enter the field with immersion in industry trainings and certifications. Yes, MORE CERTIFICATIONS! These certified experts are expected to START in this workforce as “top hands”, “CM’s”, and “PM’s”. Not well seasoned or experienced climbers. Do you see some friction, when these men hit the field and see the way work is shoved from the top-down, into the climber’s throats? How do these certs make these graduates, any more prone to industry pressure to get the work done without proper gear, planning, material, or design? Especially climbers who have many years experience, watching classroom climbers being hired, instead of them! Unions! Union apprenticeships have been a well proven way to get workers “real-time”, “hands on” work experience under a mentor who is a master tradesman. This goes to every rank and file member! Apprenticeships are a proven method to experience workers to a safe level of competence. Over a period of years, with work and classroom experience that is standardized BY THE WORKERS. I don’t see the entire industry warming up to this idea right now. But I offer a “bottom-up” approach that reaches out to every rank and file climber, instead of these elite, classroom climbers who are going to take management positions. Not climbing positions! Wade, I appreciate your critique of the industry pressure cooker that is responsible for filling holes in the ground with bodies. I would rather see climbers realizing their potential and take pride in future climbers coming in. As I said, the climbers have not seen this for themselves yet. So we will see more of Dave Anthony’s top-down safety solutions by this industry (I mean no disrespect to him). His points were mostly spot-on! In the meantime, NATE will proclaim how they are saving lives. More mothers and fathers will bury their children. Widows, widowers, and children will cling to some hope, that the call they just got about their lost loved one is just a horrible dream. That their loved one will come walking through the door any moment. Just before reality sets in and they feel the burn in their guts. As Kurt Vonnegut used to put it, “And so it goes”.
Response: Thank you! This has hit a lot of points and is hard to clarify all of them but that is why I wrote this post.
OK, OK, OK, just some food for thought. Tell me that you think!
Be smart, be safe, and pay attention. Create the plan, follow the plan, deviate from the plan to find success.
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